Should Congress bail out domestic automakers?

The big three were in trouble before the financial crisis ever hit. The bail out money if given will not solve their problems with their cost structures. The three should file for bankruptcy and reorganize to make themselves competive world wide. The federal money should be used to support the retired workers.

The governjment bailed out the financial and insurance industries and in my mind they were doing much worse things than simply being incompetent. I am guessing that the auto industry contributes more jobs to middle class workers than the financial industry. Why is there no outrage about the huge, unregulated, financial bailout but people decry helping the auto industry? I would rather have my money go to helping the auto industry with some oversight than shoveling money to the financial industry with our eyes closed. I suspect the jobs saved by the auto bailout will protect more homes than the money the banks have used to buy other banks!

As I understand it we are a free enterprise economy. The automakers are public owned corporations, not taxpayer owned. The government GAVE Chrysler a bucket of money several years ago and now they’re still in trouble. If they can’t compete then they should take a look at why, not at who’s fault it is. As was once said, “If you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen”.

Government has no Constitutional authority to loan money. Of course, it has no Constitutional authority to do 99% of what it does.

What is hurting the domestic auto makers is a lack of sales of most vehicles. Congress would best help the auto makers by helping the consumer. A $5k credit towards purchase of a new GM, Ford or Chrysler vehicle for those who make less than $100k per year is a good start. The limit can always be raised if not enough of the funds are used. Having the companies focus on downsizing model variety and increase effort toward hybrid electric or even total electric (i.e. GM’s Volt) should prevent future difficulties. If we just throw money at them now, especially if it is not enough will not solve the problem and will hurt taxpayers even more than they are being hit now.

The amusing thing here is that the finacial services industry have not been held to the same standards in proving they can recover. The only difference is policy by the government over the past 12 years has caused the finacial problem so they feel obligated to dump money in. I think you are already seeing benefits of a bailout with pay & bonus decreases as well as pressure from the american public on ridiculous union contracts awarded to the UAW. Chysler paid back the funds and there is no reason to expect that the 3 will not today. Another point to consider is that foreign governments assist their auto industries by grants, tarrifs, etc allowing cheaper vehicles to be produced I see no reason why ours should not be leveling the playing field.

The top management of the “big 3″ and the top “management” of the UAW should all be sacked. Then we need to vote all the SOB’s (Same Old Bureaucrats) out of Washington. They caused these problems and are now looking for scape goats. It looks as if we’ll not get much change (GOOD change) for 4 more years.

If we (the government) want to help the auto companies then the government should buy $15-$20 billion worth of vehicles. We buy other commodities to subsidize producers, why not vehicles? The kinds of vehicles and what to do with them is another subject. While we are at it, eliminate the Corportate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards, restrictions on using non- low sulpher diesel, the myriad fuel blends, and other add-ons required by regulations that are non-value added and make the vehicles less competitive.

No bailout should be given to the atomakers, as they stand. The BIG3 have had the resources and technology to put out a more viable product for years, and they have not. They have served their own bottom line long enough.

If any tax money is given to the auto industry, it should with a huge “rope” attached in the form of a federal overseer (Czar if you will) to make sure the money doesn’t go to fund golden parachutes for the dozens of layers of middle management that should be eliminated. I would suggest the government appoint someone who knows how to create and run a profitable business, like Ross Perot, to oversee the industry and do what he said needed to be done several years ago during his brief stint on the GM board of directors. GM didn’t like what they heard and quickly paid him a huge sum to leave. Had they followed his advice then, they wouldn’t be where they are today. The Czar should also have the authority to rewrite existing labor contracts that allow for exorbitant benefits packages agreed to by the dimwits in management as well as the totally loathesome idea of getting paid to not come to work (job banks). One of the first tasks the overseer should consider is to have every person higher than a line worker produce a justification for the existence of his/her position, i.e. how does what I do contribute to the bottom line for the company.

Complacency on the part of the voters has allowed most of the excesses of our government. Including the causes behind the current financial crisis. We need the voters to pay greater attention to what is going on. Until that changes - nothing else will.

I don’t think they deserve a bailout. Consumers should decide who survives in the market, not the Government. I don’t want ANY bureaucrat telling industry what kind of car they should build, and what kind of car we should buy.

They can make the hard choices like we did when our industry took it on the chin. Give everyone from top to bottom a 25% pay cut effective immediately.

I voted Yes because there seems to be few options and thousands of jobs are at stake. HOWEVER, since the bailout amounts exceed the market capitalization of these companies (GM currently at 2.92B), the government, as a lender, has every right to exercise control on what the companies are doing. This means that the makers will have to adhere to higher cafe standards, some GM plants may be asked to retool for production of transit equipment, reform on what workers are compensated at for lay off periods, etc. will need to be implemented. Really, there is enough work needed for updating our infrastructure that no one should be without work. With an economy slumping and the need for an improved transit system, it should be a call for all hands on deck to build it. If the auto makers refuse to cooperate, then they deserve to fail. We need to do what is best for the country. We’ve jumped into action during World War II by retooling, there is no reason we can’t do it now.

Bad management and the unions have driven the US auto industry to the point where if it did have a vehicle that someone might like to buy the price is so high it can’t complete with the “other car companies” The best answer for these three companies is chapter 11. Reorganize, get rid of the unions and try to build a car that is desirable and is affordable. The only decent looking american cars for the last few years would be the Corvette or the Cadillac CTS.

This is a multi faceted issue. The proximate cause of the auto industry troubles is the credit crisis. And the general consensus for the cause of the credit crisis is the government’s encouragement for lenders to make sub-prime loans. On the surface, then, it would seem that the government “owes” the auto industry a bail out since it caused the crisis that pushed the auto industry over the edge. But it is the entrenched business model of the auto industry that brought them to the brink where they could be pushed over the edge. All auto companies world wide are suffering from the credit crisis, but only two (GM and Chrysler) of them are going over the edge. The rest of them had the foresight to create products and business models that allow them to suffer but survive the crisis. Chapter 11 would allow the Big Two to restructure themselves to more closely align their business model with the more successful companies in their industry. Unfortunately, as this is written it looks like Congress is going to take action to prevent the free market from administering this more appropriate corrective and cleansing action.

We broke it, we should fix it. Our congress pased laws that required sub-prime mortgage loans to people that could not have qualified for normal loans. They also passed ‘mark to market’ accounting rules that valued assets at market value. This caused lending institutions, whose assets were largely mortgages, to go bankrupt when the market value of their mortgages went to near zero due to uncertainty, not actual value. This eventually collapsed the loan industry and created the credit crisis. This in turn killed the market for cars and trucks (40% loss of sales by all manufacturers, domestic and foreign) and prevented access to normal lines of credit. Congress fell over itself providing $700 billion for their buddies in the financial industry with no questions asked of these companies. Now the domestic auto industry (linked to one job in every ten in the US and over $20 billion in tax revenue every year on these jobs) asks for a bridge loan that is one twentith the size of the financial bailout and congress conducts an inquisition for the companies. Apparently congressmen feel that they have to look tough on TV and show they really care for taxpayer’s money. It also distracts attention from their give-away to the financial industry. When have you seen a call for Citi Group or AIG CEOs to be grilled by congress. We (through our congress) damaged a major US industry that was rebuilding itself and now we should provide loans keep it alive until the credit industry is working again. No one has even mentioned that the 2007 energy legislation added $8 to $10 billion to the auto industries operating cost every year (CBO numbers, the industry says it is more) and this is a part of the problem.

Detroit has built 3 new assembly lines in China. Are we bailing out thier costs? Has everyone seemed to forget about this?

I simply want to agree with Mike Martins comments….

I agree, their whole business model in the US is broken (not so everywhere in the world - fyi). However, their normal lines of credit have vanished and they need to have time to recover/resturcture based on the historic speed of the market changes. The government money should be treated as a bridge loan until other financing is arranged (i.e. hyuandai purchases chrysler). If they go bankrupt, guess who has to pay for the pensions? Note: the only person qualified to be the car czar is Lee Iacocca and I don’t think he wants the job.

Compare quality numbers and drive a few of the cars from the traditional domestics and new domestics. Most of your perceptions are quite a few years old.

In my 55 year driving history, I have only owned one foreign car. However, I still drive a 1995 model Lincoln Town Car (made in Canada) because in all the years since, I have not found ANY car as comfortable and with as good an actual proven gas mileage. (22 city - 28 highway).
Check out the current film on the Ford Motor automated assembly plant in Brazil. It produces a car with less defects and fewer workers and that is why the UAW won’t allow the American automakers to build them in the U.S. If bailout, then the latest in automated plants should be a requirement.

Rich ~ I would like to make a comment regarding China. I was honored to be one of America’s delegates to a world housing conference held in China plus have privately visited many times and been a surprise guest in several factories. As a result of what I learned vs. what you read in the American press, if I were a manufacturer AND the wages were identical, I would have my product manufactured in China. Their workers take great pride in what they individually are making and wanted me to see why theirs was better than that made by the worker sitting next to them. A recent study bore this out. Of all the companies with plants in both China and America, only ONE manufacturer had a lower percentage of defects in their American plant than in their Chinese plant. Ironically, this was an auto parts manufacturer.

I agree wholeheartedly w/ Francis, having worked in quality in the automotive industry for over 20 years, so I can tell you that this is NOT an issue over quality. Also, anyone who thinks this is not a global issue is crazy. This is not a BAILOUT, but low finance loans that will sustain AMERICAN car companies through a rough, global economic recession, that hasn’t been seen here since the Depression. Gas prices hit over $4 / gal. and financial market in CHAOS…but let’s blame the CEO’s of the biggest manufacturing segment in our country.

The economic climate the automakers are facing was created by greed and lack of goverment oversight in the banking industry, if we are going to bail out the banking industry, we should also bail out the manufacturing sectors, but they should do a better job of oversight of the bailout than they did with the banking bailout.

I would need to see major UAW labor cost reform for me to support a bailout of the auto industry. A recent case documented a man and his wife each making 100,000 per year (200K total!) doing unskilled labor jobs! There is no way that US auto makers can be competitive when non-skilled workers are being paid unbelievably high wages.

Unless there is labor reform that makes the US automakers competitive, then it is a bad business decision to spend bailout money that will just be lost.

Companies fail when they are mismanaged, so why should I believe the billions of dollars will be managed properly…everyone knows the money will find its way into the executives pockets and only a little will trickle down to where it counts. I say, let natural selection run its course…

They should be bailed out, but with strict conditions on all costs not just labor and oversight similar to bankruptcy conditions. The alternative, actual bankruptcy, will be more expensive everywhere and be no more sure of a positive result.

Does everyone understand this is a loan and not a bail out? The money has to be repaid with interest before being spent in other areas. This is required to keep our manufacturing and technological base viable in this country.

The principals will get richer, and workers will get token unemployment payments. Bailouts do more to fuel government corruption than rescue corporations, and this bailout will be no exception! Do you honestly think the people behind this money intend to rescue evil car companies? Get real! These bailouts are the crimes of the century!

This is a slippery slope. I never thought I would see the day when we had state owned companies in whole or in part. If the government owns a large stake in the auto companies they get to dictate how the company operates and what kind of cars it thinks we should drive. I just saw a headline “Pelosi Touts Notion of ‘Car Czar’ “. Isn’t that wonderful, a brand new bureaucracy to manage how cars are made! I wonder how that bureaucracy gets paid for. And you thought this bail-out money was a one time thing all going to companies that need help. Welcome to cars made the AMTRACK way! I for one will not buy a car made under such a nationalized system. We should all boycott these companies on principle if not outright pragmatism. If you really think the government can run anything well just look at hurricane Katrina. Let’s imagine national healthcare Katrina style! Back to AMTRACK - The reason AMTRACK doesn’t work is the same reason communism failed - all incentive to improve anything is taken away. If a CEO knows that his/her company doesn’t really have to provide the customer with superior value and therefore compete because the government will subsidize AND learns not to put forth bold new ideas because they might not be in sync with the government directives he will just give up. What’s a CEO to do but throw up his/her hands, show up for work, do the minimum and collect his/her paycheck. The same dynamic is at play in labor unions which is in large part why they are in this situation to start with. If I can’t be fired and I have no chance to get a promotion based on merit why would I work harder or try to make a difference. When I was in the 6th grade I saw a CBS reporter interview a Soviet Union factory worker. The reporter asked “So, how do you like your job?” The factory worker shrugged his shoulders and replied “Ehh…we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us.” That said it all and from that moment I knew communism was doomed. Do we really want to go down that path? Wake up America!

John is absolutely on the mark. No bailouts! No fascist or communist-styled blurring of the line between corporate enterprise and government! I know of no constitutional basis for the Congress or the Executive Branch to take any bail-out action. While federal meddling has probably exacerbated the problems that led to the present situation, the responsibility for these companies falls on the executives and the UAW wonks - both of whom have nearly killed their golden egg-laying gooses with poor and shortsighted practices. The Congress should repeal burdensome or unfair taxes and regulations (e.g., don’t burden American companies with more taxes or disincentives than foreign companies), but do nothing more. It is past time to stop this bail-out nonsense. Everybody will have to tighten his belt; printing bail-out dollars for every business, bank, and municipality, who will surely have their hands out, will kill what value the dollar still has. (Well, maybe the ultimate plan is to drive us to a desperate cry for the Amero, as though that could save us from a collapsed dollar.)

Too many jobs are at stake not to bail them out BUT the government should oversee their reorganization. Every party should be required to give back including vendors, workers, and especially management. Presently the UAW workers are the highest paid manufacturing workers in the USA. As far as I can see they are not worth that much because of the quality of their work. Management ran the companies into the ground. The quality of the parts used in making the vehicles is not as good as many foreign car makers. IUf the US car industry is going to survive then the price must come down and the quality must improve. Also adding to their problems is that many consumers wanted gas hogs that we can no longer allow because of energy independence and global climate change.

Providing support to the domestic auto industry can not be looked at as an economic experiment. No one can accurately predict what the effects would be of not helping the manufacturers. Negative consequences are too likely to take the risk. However, the “bail out” should not be a blank check. Detroit should get ‘progress payments’ with demonstrated productivity and restructuring benchmarks being achieved as time passes. Detroit was on the right path before $4 gasoline hit and other economic storms, they just need to accelerate their progress down the path.

Perhaps they should give taxpayers vouchers to buy U.S. built cars rather than loaning the money directly to the Big 3M. Might save or even create some manufacturing jobs.

In considering the question, it must not be forgotten that roughly 50% of cars in service in the US ARE American Big 3 products; so the impact of a failure will also be felt by millions of car owners whose investments could nearly vanish, not just by dealers and parts houses. Thus, support (properly formulated) lent to the Big 3 is also in effect a plan to prevent massive economic losses otherwise to be suffered by millions of automobile owners.

I don’t agree that this is a slippery slope…rather I think the current disaster in the financial sector is clear evidence of the “natural” result of hands-off government (as is the US preference for big gas-gusslers). The beauty of our system of government is our freedom and ability to constantly self-examine, to bias the pendulum back toward center when it swings too far. For now I can agree that the automotive industry is worth saving, but I’m all for some careful regulation.
If that regulation goes too far, I’ll be all for dialing back again.

The American car makers are suffering from their short-sighted thinking. In the ’70s it was design a car to last “only”100,000 miles. In the ’80s it was cost reduce the product not build in quality. In the ’90s it was try to catch up with the Japaneese. Now it is “Bail us out”. When are the car manufacturers going to learn? Maybe new leadership is needed? Maybe unions need to be broken? Maybe strategic alliances need to be made? Come on America, we can do better that!

The American taxpayer is not the only one that will get “fleeced” if money is giving to the “Big 3″ to continue their operations. They are probably behind paying their current invoices and as such have made their suppliers an unwilling loan office. If the “Big 3″ get taxpayer money to continue then the suppliers will end up sending more parts for which there will be no payment. It is time to “cut-n-run” toward the future, not postpone the obvious for six months and spend the resources on the poor management of the American auto companies. I wonder why the textile industry did not get a similar opportunity 10 years ago!

The “old” automobile industry has made poor decisions at best. Let them go into chapter 11. It will be the only way to get them to change.

This would be an enourmous mistake. When a company fails it needs to be let alone to fail. The system will recover and it will be better. Yes, we may have short trem economic impacts. But in the long term, we will have a much stronger economy. Bailing them out only encorages them, and other companies to act irresponsibly. If you can’t stand the heat… get out of the kitchen!

It appears that we are going to begin throwing money into a black hole. As others have said, we are on a slippery slope. Once we begin loaning them money, and we get no results but only requests for more money, when does it end. They claim it is a result of the “global recession”. Toyota made a profit while they were in the red. Are we going to encourage poor management at all other domestic companies? We have to let poor management be eliminated through the free enterprise system, not be expanded.

The big 3 have been in business making automobiles for how long? And they still haven’t figured out how to make money at it? Like another $34B is going to matter… This is why we have chapter 11.

The financial insitutions were bailed out, why not a loan for the auto industry. Large job loss in that sector will have a large ripple effect. If our government was a businessthen it would already be in bankruptcy. Maybe our elected officials should be required to take a pay and benefit cut to help bring the expenses in line.

IF THEY DON’T THERE WILL BE THE BIGGEST LOST OF JOBS IN HISTORY

IF THEY DON’T THERE WILL BE THE BIGGEST LOST OF JOBS IN HISTORY

VW closed a plant in western PA. They just built a new one in TN and VW isn’t begging. Spent most of my engineering history looking for work and would have traded for a GM job anytime. Why not resurrect Kaiser Frazier, they designed the “Henry J” 60 years before its time. Maybe bail Packard out to produce luxury cars.

The government should publish the pay scales and benefits enjoyed by the American auto industry’s unions, and then, based on the cost of pensions built in to the price of their products, we can decide what we want to buy.

Facial Special

Double Dong Divas

Celeb DeFamer

Horny Teen Harlots

Next Door Nikki

Sinful Spanking

Pacinos World

Real XXX Letters

Stella Heart

Earl Miller

Sex Movies Network

Hairy Pussies Sex

Oral Cravings

Serenety Love

Pinkys House

2 Cocks 1 Chick

Only Big Melons

Crem Of Cunt

Blacks Bang Whites

Wild Tarts

Gay Men Galore

Fat Ass Pass

Layla Ko

Addison St James

Kinky Porn Pass

Shelby Virgin

Kiss Ambers Ass

Angel Dark

Do It Biatch

Kirsten Price

Banned Celebs

Anette Dawn

Neighbor Affair

Katsuni

FqurPqB